0:00:00 - (Tyron Hyde): Think you don't have what it takes to be a property developer?

0:00:03 - (Amanda McEwin): Property developers were magnates, right? They drive the fast cars, they've got big pots of gold, and they can fund their deals. And that certainly wasn't me. I was a mum of three crazy little toddlers at the time. Big fat mortgage, massive investment debt. When I was driving a, you know, Kia Carnival minivan with my little kids in the back, I was hardly the the picture of a developer.

0:00:22 - (Tyron Hyde): Today, with over 90 home developments under her belt, Amanda McEwan banks six and seven-figure profits.

0:00:30 - (Amanda McEwin): Guess what I just banked? $687,000. How awesome is that, right?

0:00:35 - (Tyron Hyde): And now she's ready to teach you how to do it too. What does it take to be a good developer?

0:00:41 - (Amanda McEwin): Interestingly, it's less than what you think. I've got designers, I've got teachers, I've got doctors, I've got mortgage brokers, I've got FIFO workers, I've got real estate agents. I've got people from all walks of life inside of the community doing incredible things.

0:00:56 - (Tyron Hyde): Don't miss this episode of Ten with Ty. 
Hi, I'm Tyrone Hyde, the CEO of Washington Brown, the property depreciation expert. Now, I'm a qualified quantity surveyor and also a best-selling author who's helped hundreds of thousands of property investors over the years pay less tax through depreciation. I'm also an avid investor, which is why I created the podcast series Ten with Ty where I ask the smartest people I know the same 10 questions to unlock the keys to their success and hopefully leave a playbook for my family and your family too, about investing.

0:01:34 - (Tyron Hyde): Now, this podcast is general in nature and not specific to your financial circumstances. We always recommend you sit down with an accountant or financial planner before making any investment decisions. Now let's get on with the show. 

Hello and welcome to season two of Ten with Ty. Now, before I get started, I just want to thank anyone who downloaded an episode of Ten with Ty. When I first launched this little podcast, my first episode had 300 downloads, which is pretty cool. But my last one cracked 10,000 downloads, which is pretty amazing. Now, to put that in perspective, if you get 30 downloads of a podcast in the first seven days, you're in the top 50% of that category. So to get 10,000 is pretty amazing. Now, my goal for this year is to crack 50,000 downloads on one episode. And my next guest, Amanda McEwin, is going to help me get there.

0:02:28 - (Tyron Hyde): She's a rising star property developer. No, she's not. She's a Star property developer. She's done nine developments herself. But it didn't always start that way for Amanda. Ten years ago, she was tied to a full-time job, had three kids and a big mortgage and thought, you know what, I'm not busy enough. I should get into property development. Now she teaches others how to do it. Amanda McEwen, welcome to Ten with Ty.

0:02:50 - (Amanda McEwin): Thanks so much for having me.

0:02:52 - (Tyron Hyde): Very good. Now tell us, how did you get into property development?

0:02:55 - (Amanda McEwin): My whole property journey started when I had my third child. So I have three children really close together. So I've got, they're now currently 14, 15 and 16. But back when this property journey began, I had three under two and a half and I had to put them back into childcare because I had to work. We had a big fat mortgage and I went to a job I didn't enjoy because I had a really big mortgage that had needed, that actually needed two incomes to support it. So that got me searching for different wealth-creation strategies. So I started down the property investment path because that's all I knew and it seemed to be the most common way to start.

0:03:31 - (Amanda McEwin): So I bought three investment properties in three years. But then what happened is it actually ended up tying me to my job because I had my big fat mortgage. But now I had $1.5 million investment debt as well. And as you all know, when you've got investment debt, you need to be able to service that up. And we were already at capacity, so our dreams of buying 10 properties, selling down half in 10 years, and living off the passive income was crushed because we'd hit the bank's glass ceiling.

0:03:58 - (Amanda McEwin): So that then got me looking at different other strategies because I really wanted to get out of my job and have that time with my kids while they were young. That was really the driver. But in order to be able to do that, I had to get rid of my mortgage. So then I started dabbling in renovation. They were fun. So I was dropping my kids off to childcare, racing to my reno site, dropping all materials off, meeting trades, rushing to my job, picking up my tired girls end of the day, and sneaking in a visit to Bunnings during lunch hour. It was absolutely nuts.

0:04:28 - (Amanda McEwin): And I made money, right? I made 20, 40, 60k here because I would renovate and flip units. But what happened is that actually became even more time-poor and I wasn't creating this sort of income that was going to help me eliminate my mortgage and get my control over my time. So I kept on looking, kept on going to seminars and Investing in myself. And I was trying to find renovation sites off-market. So I'd invested in a program, I went to an educator to learn how to find option off-market deals and understand the option strategy.

0:04:59 - (Amanda McEwin): I've been a big person and always investing in myself to learn some other people who are doing what I want to do. And it was in that room that I got educated about the concept of property development. It never even crossed my mind because to me back then, property developers were magnates, right? They drive their fast cars, they've got big pots of gold, and they can fund their deals. And that certainly wasn't me. I was a mum of three crazy little toddlers at the time. Big fat mortgage, massive investment debt, certainly didn't have the pockets of gold. And I was driving a, you know, Kia Carnival minivan with my little kids in the back. I was hardly the, the picture of a developer.

0:05:35 - (Amanda McEwin): But what I liked about it was that the concept seemed to make. It really seemed to connect with me in some way, sort of. Even though I hadn't done it, I actually felt like I'd finally found the world creation strategy I'd been looking for. Because from what I had heard, it was a strategy that didn't seem to take a lot of time because you weren't having to go to Bunnings and go get materials to meet the trades. We could, your builder did that.

0:05:56 - (Amanda McEwin): And I wasn't having to map it all out because my designers do that anyway. The concept of property development made sense, but what really made sense was the lucrative returns that are attached to that. So I paid $40,000 to learn about how to do property development. But I was being taught the big end of town. And at the time I was swayed by the educators mentioning about funding deals. And I thought, okay, I can use their money to do deals. And in reality, that didn't happen.

0:06:22 - (Amanda McEwin): But what I did is I took what I'd learned and applied it to small-scale property development. So when I say small scale, I'm talking about one into 10. They're getting one block of land and putting anyone anywhere between one to 10 different houses on that, whether it's land subdivision or townhouses or single homes or whatever. But that's, that's what I classify as small-scale property development.

0:06:44 - (Amanda McEwin): And so because I'd invested 40 grand, right, I sure as hell is going to get a return on that investment. So I said to myself, okay, I want to get a 10 times return in that investment in 24 months. Because it took a lot of convincing to get my risk-averse husband on board as well. So I wanted to make sure that I got a return on that. So anyway, I was out sending out letters. I'd send out two to 300 letters a week trying to find deals off-market. Plus I was going to realestate.com anyway, someone responded to one of my letters and that ended up becoming my first deal. And it was going to be a simple hammerhead or battle-axe block. I was able to talk to the owner and we had a conversation around me buying the whole place. And he said, okay, if you buy the whole place, 550 if I can. If they kept the house because they weren't quite sure if they wanted to move out. And I'd put a, you know, try and put two on the back and if council said no, I'd put one on the back. So I was going to give him 150 if I could put one on the back, 180 if I could put two on the back and 550 if I had to take the whole site.

0:07:44 - (Amanda McEwin): So they decided to say, he needed some money just to be able to shut the doors on his cafe. He needed 20k. It was losing money and causing him a lot of stress. So I went to council, they said no to two. So I spoke to him and we ended up agreeing to convert the option to a residential contract and I was gonna give him 150k. That was Monday. Anyway, on the Thursday I got a call from his wife and I was in the Big W aisle, three toddlers running around my ankles like you imagine how chaotic that is. And I received his call and it was his wife and she said, oh, I saw you spoke to my husband on Monday. And I said, yeah, yeah, we agreed, I'm going to be transfer, we're going to execute the option and I'm going to transfer you 150k next week to, you know, then I'll start the subdivision and all that sort of stuff. And she goes, well, actually he passed away two days ago. He had a massive heart attack and died.

0:08:32 - (Amanda McEwin): And it still sends shivers down my spine. But how she had this clarity of thought to even have this conversation at this point in time. She goes, look, I can't stay here, I've got to go and somehow rebuild my life. Can you just please take the whole site? And she had a lot of comfort in that. She already knew what that price was going to be because we had those conversations earlier. So what was going to be a simple hammerhead block ended up being a five-site. So I ended up building out those five homes. So two at the front, three at the back. And within, within 15 months of me paying that 40 grand to educate myself, I banked my first project. Which banked me $447,000. It took a massive chunk out of my mortgage. I had to leverage the equity in my home to be able to fund that deal. But I learned a lot, a lot on the way and ended up getting a second deal that I ran in parallel using family money and that banked six weeks later, which was $187,000. And that wiped my mortgage out completely. So I went from having a massive principal place of residence debt 18 months prior to suddenly having it gone. And not only that, I was able to say goodbye to my job and have full control over my time and pull my kids out of childcare and start being the parent that I wanted to be when I decided to have children. And from then onwards, that was 2015, October 2015. Life as I knew it changed completely from then.

0:09:58 - (Amanda McEwin): And so my main driver, when I started doing this, all I wanted to do is get rid of my mortgage. Because what happens when you get rid of your mortgage is like a cash flow accelerator effect. So if you think about the bank, how they would pull out your, you know, your interest every single fortnight or month, what was happening is when I paid my mortgage off, that money stayed in our bank account. So instant paydays. It's incredible. You don't actually even think about that because you're thinking just about getting rid of the mortgage without even really understanding the cash flow impact of that.

0:10:23 - (Amanda McEwin): So it really did change our financial circumstances a huge amount. But for me, once the mortgage was gone and I had control of my time, it just gave me so much more space to be able to say yes to a lot more things, but also just have control over my time. You know, volunteer in the canteens, kids canteen if they wanted, you get so much mileage from your kids if you're working behind the canteen when they're little. So I used to do that, just go to excursions and do things that I just wouldn't be able to do if I was still in the corporate world. So that was really a very quick snapshot of my journey is to. And then from there it just started developing more and started using money partners and joint venture partners. And I. Even now, when I think about creating 89 homes, it blows me away because when I started, all I want to do is get rid of my mortgage.

0:11:07 - (Amanda McEwin): And now I'm in such a fortunate position and I guess people start seeing success and people start asking questions and wondering how you did it. And that was what people were asking me to teach them about how to do what I've done. And that's what led to me creating the Rising Star developer right when Covid hit in March of 2020, to be able to teach other people how to do what I've achieved. And yeah, that's a whole new journey now. And it's been amazing to be able to help other people have a similar experience to what I had when I paid my mortgage off as well.

0:11:40 - (Tyron Hyde): Now, obviously that's great. Obviously having money helps being a developer. Now, when they come to your program, is there like a minimum threshold? Like, do people join your program with $0?

0:11:51 - (Amanda McEwin): Yeah, they do. Some people do, because you can also do deals without your own money. So I. All the deals that I actually. Majority of my deals that I've done have actually been no-money-down deals. And so what I mean by that is there's two parts to when you do development, equity and the debt component. So the equity component is what you bring to the table. And that can be equity in your home, it can be cash, it can be other people's money.

0:12:14 - (Amanda McEwin): So that's the equity component. And then the debt component is the bank providing the lion's share of the debt. So when you're doing a no-money-down deal, you can use other people's money to actually provide the equity component of your debt if you don't have it. I guess we didn't have it at the beginning because we used the equity in our mortgage. But then we started understanding the concept of leveraging money so we would actually.

0:12:35 - (Amanda McEwin): I had my old boss. When I left my job, he approached me and he cashed out of an IT company with a nice big chunk of cash. And so he came to me and he was one that actually got my head around this whole other people's money strategy because he wanted to get involved in development. And he said, I've got all this money, but I don't know how to do development. And so then we started doing joint ventures together where he was providing all the equity, I was providing the debt, and we're all sharing in the profits. So you don't necessarily need to have your own money to do deals. And now, I mean, we can fund our own deals, but it's actually quite fun to be able to do joint ventures with the right people and be able to share that journey. Of the project and the ups and downs of it, and also the rewards at the end as well. So I regularly get asked, how much money do you need to do property development? And my response is, as little or as much as you have. Some people want to be able to do it in their own right. Some people may only have a couple of hundred thousand dollars or they may have all the equity, but not debt. So whatever you don't have, you find somebody else that could actually provide that to be able to go and do a deal. So, yeah, so I get people from all walks of life, all different financial.

0:13:39 - (Tyron Hyde): Circumstances and different skill sets. Are the builders that join you or is there no skill required whatsoever?

0:13:46 - (Amanda McEwin): No skill required whatsoever. Because my goodness if you understood, if my builder was on this podcast, he would go, Amanda asks the most silly questions because I'll go to a building site and go, what? You know, what is an eave and what's a soffit? And all this sort of stuff. Like, I don't understand, I'm not a builder, right? I don't understand all the intricacies of building. And I, I don't know how to use CAD. I'm not a designer.

0:14:08 - (Amanda McEwin): But you engage other people to do those tasks, right? So it's like someone comes to you and goes, okay, can you create a depreciation report? They've got no idea how to do a depreciate depreciation report. They recruit your skills to be able to do that. And it's the same in property development. So what I do is I actually teach the fundamental process to follow about how to do projects and then also the people to engage to be able to do the different compartments of it. And your job as a property developer is really just managing all those, I guess, like the puppet master managing all the people that are providing all the inputs into your project.

0:14:40 - (Amanda McEwin): Oh, yeah, I had a. No, I've got, I've got, I've got designers, I've got teachers, I've got doctors, I've got mortgage brokers, I've got FIFO workers, I've got real estate agents. I got people from all walks of life inside of the community doing incredible things.

0:14:57 - (Tyron Hyde): So seeing all those different skill sets, what, what do you think takes? What does it take to be a good developer?

0:15:02 - (Amanda McEwin): Interestingly, it's less than what you think. It's someone that's willing to learn and be coachable because you're always going to be. Every single project teaches you something new. As soon as you start thinking you know everything, you're going to get tripped up. Right. So that's probably an ability to learn and be coachable. Second is the ability to take action. And then thirdly is being consistent. That is the three key things that I see in all my successful developers. It's not about who has the most money, it's not about who's the smartest person. It's not about the person who's built more houses than anybody else.

0:15:32 - (Amanda McEwin): It's those three things. If you're willing to take the learning, if you're willing to take action and then keep showing up. Because like anything in life, you know, it can be a roller coaster ride and it's ups and downs and, and nothing ever happens as quickly as you want it to in this game. Like you wanted a deal yesterday but you're still trying to find the deal and you wanted your house built yesterday but you still got to go through the, navigate your way through the development process and. But if you're willing to keep showing up and keep being consistent, it will happen. It's just a matter of when.

0:16:00 - (Tyron Hyde): Cool. I've got two more questions before we get into my famous Ten with Ty Questions. Builder, obviously a very vital part of the process. How do you choose a good builder? What are your processes in regards to that?

0:16:12 - (Amanda McEwin): Probably three key criteria. Firstly is their values. Like I'm a very values-based person so when I speak to people and when I, you know, when I have conversations with people I can work out pretty quickly if, if we're going to be aligned in similar values. So that's probably one thing for me personally, it's values-based. Secondly is their skill, like in terms of the quality of their product. Are they creating the type of product that I want to create and are they creating that product to the type of quality that I expect? That's the second thing. And then thirdly is a biggie, especially in the last couple of years is their financial viability. You know, the last thing you want is a builder to go under while you're mid-construction. So you want to make sure that they're financially viable. They're the three key things, but they're the three key things that I was looking out for even 10 years ago and it's no different now. I guess we've had a few bumps in the road, especially during COVID when there were material shortages and there's been, you know, it's been a really challenging time for builders. I also work with my builders, they're part of my A team.

0:17:10 - (Amanda McEwin): So we actually navigate challenges as we go around and if you're looking for the perfect builder, you're never going to find them because it doesn't exist. You got to try and find a builder that you can actually work with because there will be curveballs on site that you need to work through. But when you've got a relationship with someone that is value-based and you can communicate with them, you can navigate through all those curveballs. So that for me is the foundation of how I choose my builders. And I also want to make sure that I have a direct line into the senior seniority or the owner of the builder. So when you have to have those, when and if you have to have those tricky conversations, you can actually then have those with people as opposed to being a small fish in a big pond. And that's what works for me and my business.

0:17:54 - (Tyron Hyde): Couldn't agree more. There's nothing worse than having a builder go broke halfway through a project, it becomes a nightmare. Before I was the world's greatest quantity surveyor in depreciation. Washington Brown were the project auditors on behalf of the banks for probably over a thousand projects in Sydney back in 1990s and 2000s. And I had one builder, we were a bit worried about him. We had to confirm his viability of a project and we independently got his accountant to write a letter. The bank wanted to see a letter saying, you know, he's liquid, everything's okay. He did that. The accountant sent us a letter. The week after he went into liquidation. So you can never be 100% certain of the viability of a builder. Unfortunately. Final question before we get to Ten with Ty. Now you mentioned before you're letterboxdropping people to find off-market deals. Now most developers tell me you make the money when you buy the site, right? That's you've got to buy the site at the right price.

0:18:48 - (Tyron Hyde): How do you teach your students to buy off-market?

0:18:52 - (Amanda McEwin): So there's a number of different off-market strategies. So letter drops, it drops just one. You can also work either with a buyer's agent or yourself or get real estate agents to do some door-knocking. I've done that once in my life and I'll never do it again. So do it for me if you choose to do that. But also there's a huge off-market database with real estate agents. So I have a huge amount of respect for real estate agents. They're a really key part of your A team. They are the ones speaking to the people who are going to buy your product.

0:19:22 - (Amanda McEwin): They are the ones that really understand the dynamic of the market because they've got their finger on the pulse of what's happening in the market right now. The media catches on a few months, you know, it's lagging, they look at the stats and then, you know, three months later they're talking about booms or busts and agents on the ground, they've already seen the market moving way before that.

0:19:39 - (Amanda McEwin): So what happens is there's a huge amount of product that actually gets moved off-market through real estate agents. So you really want to make sure you've got good relationships with real estate agents and are on their off-market databases. So that's another key strategy as well, and engaging. So when I go and look for deals, I'm not just looking on real estate.com and domain and just one strategy. I've got multiple strategies working for me at any one time and that's exactly what I teach my students as well. Don't rely on just one thing. Don't just go to realestate.com for half an hour a day to look for your deals. Put your feelers out wide. So, yeah, that's how I do it.

0:20:18 - (Tyron Hyde): Thank you. All right, you ready to play Ten with Ty?(Amanda McEwin): Yes, please.

(Tyron Hyde): That's the start of Ten with Ty. Amanda, what has been your best investment?

0:20:27 - (Amanda McEwin): I would have to say my best investment has always been education and it continues to be the best investment. I think it's like the gift that keeps on giving. So if I think back to right back when I started and wanted to create wealth, I could have tried to work it out myself, but I found someone who was doing what I wanted to do and learnt from them and that has certainly paid itself off. I mean, I've made mistakes along the way. When I started being an investor, bought a couple of lemons, which I just sold this year. But continually educating yourself and growing, I think is the best investment you can possibly make in yourself. It teaches you things you don't know. But I also see it as an insurance policy as well. Learn from other people's mistakes so that you can avoid them. And I also find that it's a fast track to whatever it is you're trying to achieve. So every single year, even now, I invest 10 to 15 to 20, sometimes $50,000 in myself every single year. Whatever it is I'm trying to learn, I will invest myself. So I'd have to say without a doubt is education.

0:21:27 - (Tyron Hyde): Before I go to number two from a property development point of view. What was your best deal you've ever done?

0:21:33 - (Amanda McEwin): Oh, so my best deal was when I banked last year. So it was interesting during COVID when the market was really tricky. Severe supply shortages and labour shortages and projects extended and build costs going up. I made the most money in my projects. So I banked my first seven-figure project late last year and it was only four homes, which is pretty incredible. And yeah, so that's probably my best project. But I'd have to say the biggest impact investment was my very first development deal. Like if I had stayed, you know, if I'd kept in the fear zone and not actually taken the plunge to actually go and learn how to do property development, but also take action and do my first project, I'd still be with a big fat mortgage in my original house trying to look for wealth creation. So that would be my best investment. The fact that I learned I went out and actually did my first development deal and got rid of my mortgage. So that's my best, probably my investment, even though it's not the highest return. But yeah, my highest return was the one that banked during COVID Cool.

0:22:40 - (Tyron Hyde): Number two, what about your worst investment? 

0:22:43 - (Amanda McEwin): Margin loan in my late 20s. So I would say, you know, just trying to create wealth because I was thinking, okay, down the track, I want to be able to have kids. And I was trying to save money and grow money and back then, right. I think I can't remember the decade, but margin loans were all the thing. You know, you go and get your loan and you buy all these shares and you're going to make all this money. And then of course getting that margin loan call and going, oh dear. Fortunately, we had some money to be able to clear it. But it was a very big lesson on leveraging to buy shares. So unfortunately it wasn't one that really broke us, but it was a very good lesson around the risks of leverage when it came to shares. And probably my second worst investment was the second two investment properties that I purchased when I was in the buy-and-hold side of things. When I first started my world creation journey, we purchased two investment properties in Gladstone. One we built, one we bought at the top of the market in 2011. So we bought for cash flow. And at the time, I think we purchased the first one at $498,000. At the time it was bringing in 650 bucks rent. So the numbers were great, cash flow positive, but. And then we went and bought a block of land and built a house and that was, that was renting for about 680. Then about 2013 or 2014, the market sort of started. It was an industrial town, but the market really pulled back and corrected. So a lot of workers left that area. And yeah, those. Those houses have been reverse mortgaged for the last probably eight years. And fortunately, we were in a position where we didn't have to sell those. But the rents drove down to about 290 bucks a week. And the value, like the $498,000 one went down to, oh, $260,000, unfortunately, that, you know, we were paying our interest and hoping that the bank wouldn't actually do a revaluation.

0:24:39 - (Amanda McEwin): And same with the other property, but we sold both of those properties this year, break even. So never made any money in 12 years on those properties. So they weren't great investments. And it's funny, I had this conversation with my husband and he would always go, whenever it's the tax time, or we get these massive big rates, invoice around June, July. God, those lemons. I'm so sick of those properties. I want to see the back of them. And I keep saying to him, I know they're not great investments, but look what's happened as a result. Like, you know, look what. That was our first step. And it wasn't a smart decision, but we made the best decision we did at that point of time with the information that we had. But that set us on this trajectory to then look for other solutions and renovation, then look for other solutions into property development. And that would have never happened if we hadn't started that. So I always try to find. I'm a glass-half-full kind of girl. So I think even though they weren't great investments, we learned a lot from it.

0:25:34 - (Tyron Hyde): Was one never to buy mining towns?

0:25:38 - (Amanda McEwin): Not necessarily. I don't. Yeah, I mean, gosh, I. We nearly bought a property in Moranbah, which I think back to at the same time, right? We bought this. We had an offer on this property, and this is what you call seriously dodging a bull. I know some. A lot of people weren't as lucky, but we bought this first property in Gladstone, and then we had a property that we had put an offer on at Moranbah. So the property was gonna be 790, $780,000. And the rents at the time was something like 1200. Insane. Insane REIT. And for some reason we thought, you know what? We're gonna put three. We're gonna develop three on this property, and we're gonna get three times the rent. And it's going to be amazing. We'd never developed before that stage. I hadn't even educated myself about it and how we thought we were going to develop three properties in a mining town miles away without any skill and all that sort of stuff.

0:26:25 - (Amanda McEwin): Anyway, what happened? We're doing our due diligence and as we were speaking to agents, I started getting this sick feeling in my gut, something wasn't right. And I spoke to one lady and she said, oh, you know, things are, things are changing a bit. There's, there's the amount of rental vacancies are starting to increase. I thought, hang on a second. I said, you know, properties are taking a bit longer to rent now. And I thought, oh, hang a second, something's happening right now. I couldn't quite put my finger on it. But we pulled out at the 11th hour. And then within six months, that market absolutely tanked. And unfortunately, you know, there's a number of investors that got lost on that. So we seriously dodged a bullet there as well. But yeah, lesson from that was sometimes if your gut's telling you something, sometimes you gotta really listen to it.

0:27:13 - (Tyron Hyde): Well, you did dodge a bullet. Cause we see the backends of those investment properties, the 791 sold for back then, and now we're doing reports where they can purchase prices like 200,000, but the construction cost is still 400 grand. So they're getting more deductions, but they paid 200,000 for it. But the poor person that paid 790, which could have been you, not a good addition to being.

0:27:34 - (Amanda McEwin): No, no, absolutely.

0:27:38 - (Tyron Hyde): Do you own an investment property? Washington Brown has helped over 250,000 property investors pay less tax with a depreciation schedule. Visit washingtonbrown.com.au to pay less tax today. 

Number three, what's been the most valuable investment advice you've ever received? Amanda?

0:27:59 - (Amanda McEwin): I think invest with purpose, invest with a purpose. And I think that's my perspective around investment, but life and business as well. So I think when you. When I talk about purpose, it's whether that is you're doing a project for financial freedom or you're doing a project to meet a social need. A lot of what I build is actually affordable housing. And that for me makes me feel really good about what I'm creating because I'm helping to. Helping first home buyers getting to market. I'm also providing much-needed property in affordable property in a market where it's really hard for a lot of people to get into the market. So yes, I'm making money but I, I also feel like I'm creating, helping the community with product that people want to live in. So I'm creating homes for people be able to create memories and a lifestyle. I think that's for me, that's investing in creating, doing a business with purpose as well. And I think, I think sometimes that whole purpose can get lost in business when we're so focused on our return on investment and making money. I don't know, I sort of feel that sometimes it can be a bit shallow. Whereas I find that when we're creating homes, actually thinking about the bigger picture outside of your own needs as well, it just gives you a sense of accomplishment and joy from what you do when you have a purpose behind how you invest.

0:29:25 - (Tyron Hyde): Fantastic. So the affordable housing is what you just rent them to essential services or how are you dictating that?

0:29:31 - (Amanda McEwin): So I'm selling the product. So, so at the moment I'm building 10 two-bedroom, one bathroom, sort of walk-up flats. It's the biggest project I've ever done and we haven't even. We're about to turn soil and we sold five already. And it's purely a price point. Right. Because the market's been going so nuts across the country over the last three years post-Covid, it's really hard for a lot of first home buyers and not even just first home buyers, a lot of young families trying to get a roof over their heads. So creating product that is in that sweet spot between. It used to be when I first started affordable housing was between 400 and $500,000 and now it's between 550 and 750,000 in the Adelaide market. That will vary depending on what other, you know, the markets there are. But and for me, even the property that is being able to hand over a home to a young first home buyer, like the excitement when you hand the keys to them and that they sense the pride they get moving into their home. I think that sometimes gets lost in this whole definition of property development. We're not just creating houses, we're actually creating homes for people. So I guess that's, that's my purpose.

0:30:42 - (Tyron Hyde): Fantastic. I think there should be more government incentives like bringing in a 4% building allowance. This is a personal thing of course, a 4% building allowance for people building affordable homes, like what they've done with the build-to-rent scheme. But they've limited that to having to do 50 developments, 50 units within the one development. Not everyone can do 50 units, but if it was just even a 10-site development. Encourage more private investor activity in that regard.

0:31:05 - (Amanda McEwin): Yeah, well. There is an affordable housing scheme here in South Australia. I'm not sure how if it branches out further, but here we do actually have affordable housing scheme that we can tap into where if you create an affordable percentage of your project is affordable housing, you get benefits in terms of a higher density, less car parking requirements and also land tax. So and then that get that firstly gets marketed to people who meet the first, the affordable housing criteria based on income so they get the first chance to purchase that property before it then goes the open market. But we have to still sell at that affordable price point. So we've got that here, which is what I'm doing as well.

0:31:46 - (Tyron Hyde): All right, question number four, what's your ideal portfolio mix?

0:31:49 - (Amanda McEwin): So for me it's not keeping all of my eggs in one basket, so it's about creating multiple income streams. So I think if you have one income stream, whether that is just your job or whether it's whether you're just solely an investor, you always want to make sure that you don't keep your eggs in one basket. Because if you have shares for example, and that gets called back if they've got shares and property and, and your income is always at some stage where something's going better than others, whether that's in your portfolio, you have some shares that go better than others. If you've got a diverse share portfolio, it evens out and it's same with investment property. So I just make sure that I've got multiple income streams. So for me I've got business, I've got rent, I've got shares. My portfolio mix is heavily real estate, mainly because I build and develop affordable housing because of what I know. But we also do have an extensive portfolio, a share portfolio as well. But for us personally we're entering it as a new phase of our wealth creation and the last 10 years have been really about paying off our original home, upgrading to our forever home, getting that completely debt-free and building buffers and creating cash flow with minimal debt. So that's been our goal for the last 10 years and we've achieved that. So we're entering into a new phase of wealth creation, heading into some form of retirement and I'll always do something because I don't think I'll ever completely retire. So that product mix is actually in the process of working all that plan out right now doing our roadmap, our 20-year roadmap. And how we're going to modify our current investment strategy to suit the next phase of our lives.

0:33:28 - (Tyron Hyde): Cool. Question number five. Now, you said you've got a six. How old was your eldest child? 16?

(Amanda McEwin): Yeah. So 14. 15. 16 year old.

(Tyron Hyde): Wow. You were busy. When, when the oldest turns 20 and she comes to you and says, Mum, I've just got $20,000 cash, I've saved up. How do I, how would I invest it? What are you going to tell her?

0:33:48 - (Amanda McEwin): Well, interestingly, Tyron, yesterday I was speaking at an event and I had a 21-year-old come up to me and ask me this exact question. But the difference was she had $250,000 and she didn't know what to do with it, right? So I was like, firstly insane and amazing that you've even got that sort of money. So a huge pat on the back. And she says, you know, I just don't know what to do with this $250,000. And I thought, I thought back to the conversation that we had when I interviewed you and asked this question. And I said, look, you know, I know this is $20,000 not $250,000, but I think the answer is pretty much the same. I just said to her, look, allocate a portion to go and experience life. So, you know, allocate a portion, go and travel, whatever connects with you, whatever it is that you love to do, go and experience that and get some life experience under your belt that's going to inspire you, invigorate you, give you headspace, to just have some life experience, right? So I said, yeah, allocate and think about that. And then for the rest of the funds, think about what is it that you want to be doing. Do you want to be buying a house? Do you want to create some income flow through that? Do you, what do you enjoy doing? Do you want to. Do you like tracking shares or do you like building homes? You know, have a think about what connects with you.

0:35:04 - (Amanda McEwin): And she said, oh yeah, like, you know, I like doing both. I said, well, you could either invest in yourself and do a portion in shares and you could also either buy property, you could even develop your own property, buy a single home and go from a go for a principal place of residence strategy while you buy a block of land, build a house on it even for 12 months, flip it, get the tax benefits of that, and then do another one because she's so young and do that as a strategy if she wanted to. Or she could be a money partner and get a return on that investment as well. So I said to her, have a think. There were a lot of speakers at yesterday's event, so have a think about all the things you've heard. What connects with you personally? What do you think would inspire you, because you also want to enjoy what you're doing as well. But then educate yourself about whatever strategy you're going to be doing and make sure you're getting a return on that money as well. So that's what I said to her. And so to break that down as a 20-year-old, because I'm sure my girls be there before I know it, I'd be the same thing. I say, you know, take 5 or 10k, go and travel for 12 months or 6 months or however long you want and just get some life experience under your belt. Because I really do think, I did the same thing when I was younger and I remember staying in backpackers and, you know, sleeping on train floors. You know, our train was leaving earlier and absolutely living on the bones of our ass. Right. But there's so many experiences, incredible experiences that came out of that, life experiences around managing money and managing adversity and things like life skills, talking to people from all different walks of life and different cultures and their life skills that can translate in so many different ways when you're older as well. So I'll do the same thing, go and travel and live for a while and then invest whatever the balance is, either in some sort of education that's going to help you create an income stream to help set yourself up for life.

0:36:50 - (Tyron Hyde): Fantastic. So just. Just to let the audience know. So when Amanda asked me that question, I said a similar thing. I said, I want my daughter to go away for a year with $20,000 and not hit me up for, and travel around the world and not hit me up for any money for a year. There you go. You'll learn some major life skills. 

If you like this podcast, don't forget to subscribe. And if you do and you leave a comment, send me an email to tyron@washingtonbrown.com.au and I'll send you a couple of my books for free. 

All right, question number six. You've just turned 50 and you've inherited $500,000. You've got no money. How would you advise yourself to invest that $500,000, Amanda?

0:37:26 - (Amanda McEwin): Well, this connects with me because I'm just about to hit that milestone next, you know, this year, so.

(Tyron Hyde): I think You've got a bit of money though.

(Amanda McEwin): Yeah, I was going to say, fortunately not in that situation. But if you've inherited 500,000 and you absolutely have nothing to your name at all, I would go, I would think about either becoming a. You want to be able to ultimately get a roof over your head. So the last thing you want to be doing is hitting pension age, whether you're 60 or 70, and getting the pension and having to pay rent out of that money. So at that stage I'll be working out how to try and get a roof over your head, but do it in a way that's going to grow. So if I was in that situation, I'd be using that money to even develop a principal, place of residence, get a block of land, build a house on it and get some capital growth in that to then perhaps go again or leverage the equity to then go again another project or get a return on that money. So that's what I would do to be able to create some, be able to grow that money, create some equity, but also have in the back of your mind that you want to get that house, you want to get a roof over your head and then get rid of that mortgage as quickly as possible so that you then if you happen to be on a pension, which in reality, if you do that and you keep doing projects, you're not going to have to go on the pension anyway because you're going to be able to create wealth using active strategies. But I think that would be my, get a roof over your head and then leverage equity to be able to get rid of that mortgage and then create. The next phase would be then creating an income stream, passive income stream.

0:39:05 - (Tyron Hyde): Have any of your students joined with that kind of similar scenario where they've inherited money and wanted to go down this path?

0:39:11 - (Amanda McEwin): Yeah, I've had, definitely had students do that. And yes, whether they become money partners, some of them have become money partners to start off with, just to find their feet around doing a project, but they're clear on what their broader strategy is in terms of getting that roof over their heads.

0:39:26 - (Tyron Hyde): Very cool, Very cool. All right, question number seven. If you go back in time, what would you tell your 20-year-old self about investing? I think this is one of my favourite questions, actually.

0:39:35 - (Amanda McEwin): I'd reinforce the concept of compounding. So understand the concept of compounding and even doing something small in your 20s will pay dividends as you go on. So I think understanding the power of how to make money grow and also not being so hard on myself to think that I had to have everything figured out at that age. I think that's the challenge. And I, I've even speak to my 16-year-old and she, you know, she goes, Mum, you know how am I gonna be able to afford to buy a house when I'm older? And, I think today's youth tend to have a lot more worries about that, like being able to afford their own home and earn enough money than I certainly did in my 20s. I was out, I was actually, when I was 20, I was actually living in the, in the UK, living, traveling and working and doing that sort of thing. So I think of my 20-year-old self, I'd say have a bit more clarity around what you want to achieve in life and learn, surround yourself with people who know what they're doing and are successful because I think when you're surrounded by like-minded people, that sort of levels you up as well, but at the same time, live as well. Live, learn and plan for your, for your life. I think so.

0:41:00 - (Amanda McEwin): I mean, I know I had some friends of mine when they were younger that they, I did have some friends that when they were 20, they bought their first property and you know, they didn't really do any travel and they spent their whole youth just buying property and investing and not actually doing a lot of fun living as well. And, and that's great in terms of creating wealth, but life is so much more about just creating wealth. You know, you want to be able to create wealth in that financial independence, but you want to do it in balance with life experience and living life as well. So.

0:41:32 - (Tyron Hyde): All right, question number eight. What legacy do you want to leave your family or community, Amanda?

0:41:37 - (Amanda McEwin): For my family, I want my girls to be independent and strong women that can stand on their own two feet and, and reflect upon my unsolicited words of wisdom through their teens to help them when they're older so that they can become their best versions of themselves. I think that's, I want them to be the best versions of themselves.. I want them to be able to go through life and be able to deal with the roller coaster ride of life with a clear, you know, be able to deal with things and to be able to live a life of purpose and just to be decent human beings. And I've said to them, and I said this from a young age, I said, you know, and who you choose to be your life partner will be one of the most important decisions you make in your life. So choose wisely so, you know, these are the lessons I've weaved in and as many eye rolls as I've got. I spoke to a friend of mine, one of my daughter's friends, mum recently, she's got 23-year-old triplets actually and she said, oh, you know what, our girls are now 23 and they're now starting to reflect upon some of the things that I said when I was younger, when they were getting the eye roll that now they understand why you said those things. So I'm hoping when that girl gets that age that they'll think, because my youngest goes, mum, not another lecture, you know. 

(Tyron Hyde): We're going through that, don't worry.

0:43:01 - (Amanda McEwin): Absolutely. But you know, you just got to keep planting those seeds and hoping that they grow. And for me personally, so, so yeah, being able to bring up my girls and create some decent humans is important. But also for me it's also knowing that I've made a positive difference in the lives of others and I really feel that I'm able to do, that's why I get so much joy from what I do at the Rising Star Developer, because I've created this beautiful community and even I actually had about five or six of my students show up at my event yesterday, which I didn't know they were coming in Brisbane and especially a couple of the new people and they just said, look, the positive community that you've created is what they were completely blown away from. So. And I think we interview everyone that comes into our community because we want to make sure we've got the right people in there because there's so much negativity in this world and I think you really do need to surround yourself with people that, you know, everyone has ups and downs in life and you know, life can deal a shit sandwich every now and again and you're surrounded with people that you know, that have your back and that are kind and have this view of there's enough, you know, there's enough there. Like we're there to help one another and we're, you know, help to support one another through ups and downs and also there to celebrate success. There's no tall poppy syndrome, like at the moment I'm just, we do a six and seven-figure club at Inside the Inner Circle where we celebrate the success of our students who've made six or seven-figure profit for that year.

0:44:25 - (Amanda McEwin): Because in this game when you go through a project, right, like I had a payday a couple of weeks ago, I couldn't go to my family or my friends and go, guess what? I just banked $687,000. How awesome is that, right? You can't do that, but with a community where people who actually get the journey that you've gone through. They're like, you know what? How awesome is that? I know what you've done to do that. And you are awesome. And to be able to, when you're working on a business and typically you're at home by yourself and, property development can be a lonely journey because you're doing it at home and you're doing all these amazing things, but you haven't got people to share that with to have a community going. I am awesome because I had just banked $380,000 and that's helped me take a big chunk out of my mortgage. And you have people around you go, you know what? That's freaking awesome. And celebrate you. And that inspires other people as well and helps them progress in their journey. I think that's pretty awesome.

0:45:14 - (Tyron Hyde): Now just one thing. With the program, back to reality with the program. So projects go for three years. How do you, how does it work? Is it a long-term program?

0:45:23 - (Amanda McEwin): I didn't want someone to become part of the program and 12 months and you're out, right? Because typically projects take longer than that. So with my program, the way it works is you invest yourself, you're in that program for as long as the program exists. So it actually, even though it's like an upfront investment, it actually, the years that you're involved, it's really cheap because you can do one project and more than pay it off. But it's not just that you're part of a community that's ongoing. So whether it's your first project or your second or your third, you can still tap into the support and ask those questions and join the group coaching calls to get that question answered. And so I've done that for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I acknowledge that projects take longer than 12 months. And I want to be able to help support people through that whole journey because I want to see people actually get results and achieve success, not just about me educating them. And then you're out, you know, go on your way. I actually want to see the success that they have because then what that does is even when you say the people who've just got the six and seven figure club awards, that's taken them a journey, sometimes 12 months, sometimes two years, sometimes three years, depending on how, where they're at. So by then I get to then hear their success. But then also that also inspires other people who, whether they're at the start of their journey or midway or, you know, two or three projects deep, that inspires them, too. So that's the reason why I wanted to just open it up and people come in and out of the program. So even though I've got many students, some people are in for a while, and some people go and do their own thing. People will connect when they need to and reach out for support. But I wanted to know, from my perspective, that I was offering a program that is world-class, that it is authentic, that it is a really safe space, an abundant space for people to connect and create wealth together. And I'm really proud that I've created that space.

0:47:17 - (Tyron Hyde): Very cool. Very cool. All right, question number nine. What does success look like to you, Amanda? You look pretty successful from the outside world with all these developments and so forth, but what does success look like to you?

0:47:26 - (Amanda McEwin): So for me, it's a quote that really captures my holistic view of success. And it's. Interestingly, it's a quote that was read to me that I learned about before I left my last job. The last company I worked for, really great at investing in their staff, about mindset and a bit of philosophy and things like that. So the quote that I'm going to read is Ralph Waldo Emerson. I'm sure you might know this. I'm not sure if you know this one, but it says to laugh often and much. To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children. To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends. To appreciate beauty, to find the best in others. To leave the world a bit better, whether that be by a healthy child, a garden patch, or a deemed social condition. To know that even one life is breathed easier because you have lived, this is to have succeeded.

0:48:16 - (Tyron Hyde): That's great. Sorry, who was that by

(Amanda McEwin): Ralph Waldo Emerson.

(Tyron Hyde): Love it.

(Amanda McEwin): Yeah, it's pretty great.

0:48:24 - (Tyron Hyde): Thank you very much. All right, question number 10. Now, the reason I started this podcast was because my father lost all his money, which had a bit of a devastating effect on him, to be honest. So Warren Buffett is quoted as saying, rule number one, never lose money. Rule number two, never forget rule number one. Amanda, how do we not lose money as investors?

0:48:46 - (Amanda McEwin): So as investors. So there's a number of philosophies that I teach my members inside my program. So the first one is always risk first, profit second. Right? So when you, in the development world, when you start doing feasibilities, the numbers are really lucrative, right? And that greed gland can certainly come to the fore and you start thinking, I'm going to make all this money, how awesome is this? But I always say we look at the project first and make sure that we manage risk first. And if you're comfortable that all those risks are being managed and you can't manage every single risk but the majority of the risks, then if the profit sacks up, then you proceed. So that's one strategy. Second strategy is always have buffers. So buffers in your projects, buffers in your financial life so that any, if any surprises happen, then you know that you're going to be able to support that surprise or that challenge. So like I think back for our investment properties and those two investment properties were not, you know, were reverse mortgage and costing us money. We had buffers to be able to ride that so we could get out without, you know, without it costing us. And same with projects. I always want to make sure that I've got, if anything goes south, but I know that my investors and my money partners are all protected and we're going to be okay. So always have buffers. Thirdly, win, win, always. So it's always making sure that whatever you do is a win for you, but it's also a win for your joint venture partner, your business, your family, friends, whatever. And then the last one is starting with the end in mind. So when we go into projects, it's always thinking about how we're going to get out of a project when we're getting into it. And so that's looking at risk strategies there. So it's really a lot of this is around risk management and as I mentioned before, I'm married to a very risk-averse husband. And as frustrating as that can be at times, it's actually been a blessing in disguise. That push-pull, I sort of, he drags me back down. I'm like, I just want to run and run and run. And he's like, well hang on a second Amanda, that's a bit risky. So we manage to meet halfway most times.

0:50:43 - (Amanda McEwin): But yeah, I think it is really about managing risk and, and regardless of how good something is, you always want to look at, think, okay, well what could go wrong here? And that's not to just scare yourself or to freak you out. Especially for those who are really risk averse, think, oh my God, I'm scared. Too scared, it's too risky. It's about taking calculated risks, because everything in life has risks. So by managing risk, best way we can, risk first, profit second. Having buffers, win win always and starting with the end in mind, is how I believe that you can never lose money.

0:51:18 - (Tyron Hyde): Love it. Love it. All right, we're coming to the end of the program. Amanda, now, I didn't tell you there's always a surprise question on Ten with Ty. I don't think you asked me one, but I'm going to ask you one. It's about a topic that I love, construction costs. Okay, so my topics, my question's related to that. A developer once said to me, he said he had a big booming voice. He said, Ty, if I knew the construction cost, the end construction costs before I bought the site, I would never have bought a site. Now, if developers struggle to find the construction cost, and I'm a quantity surveyor and I sometimes struggle to know what things cost to build, how can a newbie doing a feasibility know what the construction costs of a project are going to be?

0:51:53 - (Amanda McEwin): Yeah, so that's a really important question, right? So this is where we need to have an A team around us. So our builders are the ones that, they're the ones that are estimating projects all the time. So firstly, you want to make sure that using a builder that's creating similar product to what you're trying to create, because if they're doing multiple projects, they generally got similar projects in the pipeline. They've cost it up, or they're in the process of costing up. So when I am taking on a new project, I'm speaking to my builders and going, okay, what would. Because at the time when you're taking on a project, you don't have the full working drawings, right? You have a concept in mind. So I'll go to my builder and go, okay, I've got this three site here is going to be likely three bedrooms, two bathrooms, double garage of around 160 square meters on 300 square meters of land of a medium spec, right? So you sort of outline the parameters about what you're planning to create and based on their experience, because they're the ones that are doing estimating for all these other projects and, and can. And see what the market is. They give you an estimate, right? And it's an estimate because of course they don't have the full working drawings with the footing debts and all that sort of stuff. So you put buffers on those estimates to make sure that if it goes up or down that you're still going to be okay. Because you as a developer, you don't understand how to. And I wouldn't have the first idea how to estimate a project. Right. That's not my skill set. That's what my builders do day in, day out. So it's working with builders that firstly you know that they, they've done this before, that they actually understand how to create the product that you want to create. And if they've got projects in progress where typically most builders that I work with, they've got, you know, 40 to 100 keys under, under construction. So they've got their finger on the pulse of construction, construction cost.

0:53:37 - (Amanda McEwin): Certainly the last two years during COVID that was testing builders, that's for sure. When they would be, they'd provide a quote and then put the order in and then the order then jumps, gets pushed up by 17% and that put a lot of risk on builders. But it's about making sure you're dealing. You've got relationships with builders where you can get that, the costing and you can only base it on the current market. Right. But typically when you're doing a project, you've got your budget pricing and then that gets tightened up when you've got your build cost and you've got your, when you've got your final working drawings. But it's having contingency and buffers in place so that you can weather ups or downs on that price as well.

0:54:13 - (Tyron Hyde): And is there recommended builders within your programs that go to that level? The program.

0:54:16 - (Amanda McEwin): So what we do is we have what's called a black book, so members can actually put in their favourite builders, designers, architects, brokers, all that sort of thing in there. And then we've got state-based chats as well where people can ask locally if they've got builders that they recommend. So absolutely. Within the community, if people are sharing their A teams and that's because we've got a national program, it's all around Australia. They've got builds, the students all around Australia and regionally and in the cities as well. So we've got the black book there and then we've got the state-based chats as well where people share who they've got. And by having this community which is abundant, it's not about this is my builder, I'm not sharing my builder. We've created a space where the more we give, the more we get back.

0:55:01 - (Tyron Hyde): Thank you so much for your time, Amanda. Now if you want to join Amanda's community, where would people reach out and find you so you can go to.

0:55:07 - (Amanda McEwin): My website risingstardeveloper.com.au or otherwise. I'll give you a link as well. I'll show you, put the link to the show notes where we can give you access to a free program to actually learn more about the concept of property development. I've got a program called the Cash Flow Accelerator. It's a short course, six modules like, goes for a couple of hours and that would just introduce you to the concept of what is small-scale property development. How do you do it and how can you create cash flow streams from that? So more than happy to give your listeners a link to that if they want to go and check that out.

0:55:39 - (Tyron Hyde): Fantastic. Well, thanks again so much. I've really enjoyed, I've learned a lot. Thank you Amanda.

0:55:43 - (Amanda McEwin): My pleasure.

0:55:44 - (Tyron Hyde): Thank you. Thank you everyone for listening. Okay, bye. 

Ten with Ty is brought to you by Washington Brown, the property depreciation experts.