Building Wealth through Renovation: Bernadette Janson
Summary:
Join Tyron Hyde as he interviews Bernadette Janson, a serial renovator and founder of The School of Renovation. Bernadette shares her expertise in helping women build wealth through property investment and renovation. Discover her strategies for maximising profit, the importance of financial independence, and the value of listening to your mother's advice. Whether it's renovating properties or investing in websites, Bernadette offers valuable insights for achieving success in the world of real estate. Don't miss this episode packed with practical tips and inspiring stories.
Watch on YouTube
Audio
Chapters
- Introducing Bernadette Janson
- Q1: Her Best Investment
- Q2: Your Worst Investment?
- Q3: Most Valuable Advice?
- Q4: Ideal Portfolio Mix?
- Q5: Investing 20k at 20?
- Q6: Investing 500k at 50?
- Q7: Advice to 20yr-old-self?
- Q8: Your Legacy?
- Q9: Definition of Success?
- Q10: How to Minimise Loss?
- Bonus Q: Tips When Buying to Renovate?
Transcript
Click to expand the full transcript
[TRANSCRIPT]
0:00:00 - (Tyron Hyde): On this episode of Ten with Ty.
0:00:02 - (Bernadette Janson): But you know how they say a man's not a plan?
0:00:06 - (Tyron Hyde): Well, I've never had to say that to be honest. But I like it. Bernadette Janssen helps women build wealth through renovating.
0:00:13 - (Bernadette Janson): Having a loving relationship is no insurance policy. You've got to be able to stand on your own two feet.
0:00:18 - (Tyron Hyde): And has a great strategy for getting young adults onto the property ladder.
0:00:22 - (Bernadette Janson): They got the loan, we put in the cash, they get the first hundred thousand. That's our goal.
0:00:28 - (Tyron Hyde): Is this your famous smashed avocado theory?
0:00:30 - (Bernadette Janson): It is. It's not just the money, it's building that entrepreneurial spirit. We don't have time to fight because we've always got a project on the go.
0:00:39 - (Tyron Hyde): But flipping property isn't her only money-making pursuit.
0:00:42 - (Bernadette Janson): So basically, we've spent 100 grand on a website about toilets.
0:00:49 - (Tyron Hyde): That wasn't your worst investment?
0:00:51 - (Bernadette Janson): No!
0:00:52 - (Tyron Hyde): It's all coming up on ten with Ty.
Hi, I'm Tyron Hyde, the CEO of Washington Brown, the property depreciation expert. Now, I'm a qualified quantity surveyor and also a best-selling author who's helped hundreds of thousands of property investors over the years pay less tax through depreciation. I'm also an avid investor, which is why I created the podcast series Ten with Ty, where I ask the smartest people I know the same ten questions to unlock the keys to their success and hopefully leave a playbook for my family and your family too, about investing.
0:01:27 - (Tyron Hyde): Now, this podcast is general in nature and not specific to your financial circumstances. We always recommend you sit down with an accountant or financial planner before making any investment decisions. Now let's get on with the show.
Hello and welcome to Ten with Ty. Joining me today is Bernadette Janssen. She's a serial renovator. She hosts a podcast called She Renovates, runs a company called The School of Renovation, which helps property investors achieve the maximum profit they can on property investment and renovation. I believe. Bernadette, is that correct?
0:02:03 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah, that is absolutely true.
0:02:05 - (Tyron Hyde): That's good. Now, I read that you did your first renovation at the age of 13.
0:02:11 - (Bernadette Janson): So I used the term very loosely because it was pretty much a makeover. But I lived on a farm and as you may or may not know, farmers don't like to spend too much money on their home. All the money goes into the business. And so if I wanted to change my environment, I needed to do it myself, which I did. And I was hooked from that time onwards. And I also married a Steven who comes from a 40 years of building.
0:02:45 - (Bernadette Janson): And so we have, you know, chartered a path with property and construction.
0:02:53 - (Tyron Hyde): You're right, sounds great. And the school of renovation, how does that help property investors?
0:02:58 - (Bernadette Janson): So basically, our target market is women who are over 40. And it's not like we turn other people away, but I think that's who I had in mind when I started it. Because as you probably know, women are not in great shape financially as a whole. Many have come through life, have not really focused on their own financial wellbeing, have brought up families, often end up single again, and in fact, women over 50 are overrepresented in the homelessness statistics.
0:03:34 - (Bernadette Janson): So I felt that there was an opportunity, and even for me, like I had, like I was pretty much dependent on my husband for my retirement, you know, and while we were all going along, okay, that was fine. But if, you know, anything happened to him, then that wasn't going to work. And so I had this desire to be independent. So how we help our people is to really arm them with the tools to make up ground quickly, using, renovating in terms of what they buy, and to improve its cash flow and also improve its value so that they can move on to and grow their portfolio.
0:04:22 - (Tyron Hyde): That's fantastic. And it's like renovation with a good cause.
0:04:26 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah.
0:04:26 - (Tyron Hyde): Yeah, that's great. What made you think of starting that?
0:04:29 - (Bernadette Janson): To be honest with you, I was bored and lonely. Well, you know, you work on your own, on projects. You've got, you know, you can't be lunching every day of the week because all your friends are working. And I really wanted to do something that was a bit more outward-looking, you know, sort of beavering away on a project on your own, you know, for your own benefits. Fine. But I wanted to do something that was a bit bigger than that and have a community.
0:04:56 - (Bernadette Janson): So selfish reasons.
0:04:58 - (Tyron Hyde): Fantastic. Fantastic.
0:05:00 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah.
0:05:00 - (Tyron Hyde): All right, so Ten with Ty, just a bit of background. Brief recap of what this is about. As you know, my father lost all his money in a company called Estate Mortgages. And what I'm trying to do with this podcast is to ask the smartest people I know. Ten questions, the same ten questions for everyone. And hopefully I'll be able to leave a bit of a roadmap for my daughter or your kids for financial security.
0:05:25 - (Tyron Hyde): And hopefully my daughter will read it one day and or listen to this podcast series and she might learn from it and hopefully won't end up in the same position that my father ended up with which killed him in some way. So are you ready to play Ten with Ty?
0:05:40 - (Bernadette Janson): I am absolutely ready to play. And thank you for including me in this project.
0:05:44 - (Tyron Hyde): Thank you. All right, I've got a little thing button. I press here. This is how we start. Wait. There we go. All right, so question number one. Bernadette, what has been your best investment?
0:05:56 - (Bernadette Janson): Okay, so my best investment has really been the home that we currently live in. So as a renovator, you tend to buy and sell too much. Well, you tend to sell too much because the whole idea of flipping is very adrenaline-driven. There's something really nice about having that chunk of money. But I was looking around for property. I was looking around for a project, actually, and we had this. Stephen and I had this idea that we're going to downsize at some stage. So I thought we really should look at buying something in the suburb where we're planning to live so that we're sort of staying abreast with the market there.
0:06:38 - (Bernadette Janson): And I was going around looking at properties in Redfern and I found this warehouse conversion that had been on the market for months and months because it was overpriced. And I thought, okay, well, I think this is quite good because it has growled towards a separate property. So that could be on Airbnb or separately rented. And it's big enough because we've got four kids, so I needed something biggish.
0:07:10 - (Bernadette Janson): And so we bought it as an investment property, thinking that we may downsize to it, but not really sure. And as it's turned out, we've had it now for about ten years, I think. And we had it rented out for a few years. And then we did eventually sell our house and downsize into it. But for every year we've owned it, it's delivered around about a quarter of a million dollars in capital growth.
0:07:40 - (Tyron Hyde): Wow.
0:07:41 - (Bernadette Janson): And I know that because our neighbour, who has the identical property, just sold. So I know what the sale price was and it really brought home to me, like, I'm a bit of a slow learner, the value of picking the right area. And like, I've had done lots of good buys, but this really brought home to me how much you're losing when you sell something. So, yeah, over the last few years, two and a half million dollars extra equity.
0:08:13 - (Tyron Hyde): I think sometimes developers do the same thing. Sometimes I look at some of the developers that we've worked with and thought if you just kept a lot of your properties, you would have had more money, you would have had more success than if you. And because developers always try and flick them. Sometimes, some of their success would have just been holding a lot of properties and drawing the equity in that development and then doing the next development with that equity rather than trying to sell them all but not the next one.
0:08:35 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah, well, you sort of get into a mindset around it and don't really think about it. So. Yeah, so that's definitely been my best.
0:08:44 - (Tyron Hyde): Cool question number two. Now, I've learned more from my worst investments than I have from my best investments. So I want to ask you, Bernadette, what has been your worst investment?
0:08:54 - (Bernadette Janson): Okay. I'm not going to call this an investment. I'm going to call it a decision, but it's the same thing. So I did my first small development, like, probably about 30 years ago, and, like, everything wrong was taking the kids to school, saw this house down the road, thought it had demolition potential, bought it, demolished it, turned one into two. And so when we came, we intended to sell them. And when we came to go to market, I don't know.
0:09:27 - (Bernadette Janson): No market dies like the Adelaide market does because we're in Adelaide at the time anyhow, we couldn't get our price for them. And we just. Guess I'd done no research. We just thought this was a good thing to do. And we, in the end, we pretty much buy sell them. We sort of covered the cost. And the reason we did that was because we're about to have our fourth baby and this is just so bad. I just really.
0:09:55 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah. Shouldn't be admitting to it. But anyhow, we're about to have our fourth baby and we needed a new car and I can't stand debt on that sort of stuff. So I wanted to pay cash for the car and so we had to sell the apartment, the two villas, in order to be able to do that. Or so I thought. And so as a result, like, it was just so stupid. And now when I look back on that, we could have easily refinanced it.
0:10:27 - (Bernadette Janson): And even if we had negatively geared that those properties, we could have easily held them. And of course, in the years following that, they went up exponentially because they were really nice.
0:10:44 - (Tyron Hyde): Pays not to look back at some of the properties you've sold over time and don't go on RP Data and see what they're worth today. It doesn't make you feel very good.
0:10:52 - (Bernadette Janson): That doesn't upset me so much as what the reasoning behind it. And, you know, like, obviously I've learned a lot since then. But at that time, I was so naive and knew nothing about, you know, finance and all the tricks of the trade, which obviously I do now, so it annoys me, but that would be the worst thing I've ever done.
0:11:20 - (Tyron Hyde): Do you own an investment property? Washtington Brown has helped over 250,000 property investors pay less tax with the depreciation schedule. Visit washingtonbrown.com.au to pay less tax today.
Number three, what has been the most valuable investment advice you've ever been given?
0:11:41 - (Bernadette Janson): Okay, so the best advice I got from my mum, who was a farmer, widowed at 45, and after my father died, proceeded to buy every one of her neighbour's properties during the drought. And she used to always say to me, they're not making any more land, so don't sell anything. But I didn't really take enough notice of that.
0:12:06 - (Tyron Hyde): Very good. Did you? So at 45, is that what kind of spurred a bit of the school of renovation for 40-year-old women as well?
0:12:15 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah, right. Yeah. I think that's when I realised, like, you know how they say a man's not a plan? Well, I know I don't, but I like it. That's in female empowerment land.
0:12:26 - (Tyron Hyde): Right. Okay.
0:12:27 - (Bernadette Janson): But I just really got that. I understood that a having a loving relationship is no insurance policy. You've got to be able to stand on your own two feet.
0:12:37 - (Tyron Hyde): That's great. I love it. What is it? A man's not a plan? Well, I've never had to say that, I'll be honest. But I like it.
0:12:44 - (Bernadette Janson): If you've got a daughter, you probably. That would be a good one to wheel out.
0:12:50 - (Tyron Hyde): Okay, I like it. Number four. Okay, what would be your ideal portfolio mix of commercial property, bitcoin shares, et cetera?
0:12:59 - (Bernadette Janson): To be honest with you, I don't like shares. I think in terms of investing in the stock market, I think. What are they called? Equity bonds are better, more stable, 9%. I think they average over a length of time in terms. And I also don't know much about commercial property and I'm not interested in it. So I think you've got to be interested in what you invest in because otherwise, you're too dependent on advisors.
0:13:30 - (Bernadette Janson): So I'm a great believer in, I love high growth areas like inner city, even large rural centres, but I also then love the whole coastal Airbnb, the country type property, so. And the other thing that I have been doing a lot of recently is investing in websites.
0:13:52 - (Tyron Hyde): Oh, really?
0:13:53 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah. So you're gonna die when I tell you this, but we, my marketing guy and I have been doing a lot of learning around it and we decided that we would buy a bigger site to get a bit of an understanding of how they go because mainly we're growing our own. But we bought this website for $100,000 on renovations. But as it's turned out, the ranking content is all on toilets. So basically we've spent 100 grand on a website about toilets.
0:14:32 - (Tyron Hyde): That wasn't your worst investment?
0:14:34 - (Bernadette Janson): No! The other thing I would say about that is, I know they do say it is an investment asset class, but it's not the sort of investment you can set and forget.
0:14:47 - (Tyron Hyde): How do you manage it? What do you, what, how do you make money out of the website?
0:14:55 - (Bernadette Janson): So this one was already making money. Now you try and get a real estate investment to do this. We paid $100,000 and it was bringing in around about 2900 a month.
0:15:09 - (Tyron Hyde): Well, no, it's 36 grand. Oh, yeah, 36%, yeah. And you don't have to do anything.
0:15:17 - (Bernadette Janson): You do actually, because if you don't, that, that won't stay like other people. Other sites will come and take over your. Although I think, I don't think I should say, I'm not going to tell you what our top-ranking article is because it's too terrible. So what we need to do is, and we are doing this is updating the content that's already there and adding new content. So there's a thing called topical authority where you become an authority on a particular topic. So clearly we're a topical authority on toilets moment. So we're extending that out to bathrooms and then further on.
0:16:00 - (Bernadette Janson): And so you need to keep that up. I learned the other day to have a website that's bringing in 20,000 a month, you need to have around 1700 articles on it. And obviously these are SEO-optimised articles. To have 1700 articles, if you were to write them longhand, like, I know we have AI now, but if you were to write them manually, that will cost you about $92,000 to get that written. But, but, you know, 20,000 is 240 a year. It's not too bad.
0:16:43 - (Tyron Hyde): So just before I move on next, I'm just a little bit confused. So people go on the website and what, are you making money from ads or are you making money from people then, but buying products and getting it fulfilled?
0:16:54 - (Bernadette Janson): Both. So at the moment it's just Amazon affiliate, which is lousy, and. And display ads.
0:17:01 - (Tyron Hyde): Right.
0:17:01 - (Bernadette Janson): You know those websites that you go on and you hate them because they've got those flashy ads? It's like that.
0:17:06 - (Tyron Hyde): Right. Okay.
0:17:07 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah. All right. Yeah. So there you go.
0:17:11 - (Tyron Hyde): All right, question number five. Let's say you're 20 years old today and you had $20,000. You've worked at Maccas for a couple of years, you saved up 20 grand. How would you tell yourself to invest that $20,000?
0:17:23 - (Bernadette Janson): Okay, I've got two answers to that one. Firstly, if I was going to invest it in a property myself, particularly if I was in Melbourne, I'd go and buy a unit in Melbourne. Probably not one in a high rise, but lots of low. Like, I've been looking around Melbourne and there's a lot of units on the market there that, like, three or four years ago sold for 350,000, are now selling for 250,000. So, normally, I wouldn't say a unit would be a great investment, but when you've only got 20 grand, you've got to, you know, you have to get started somewhere, and you can't really afford to be doing too much else with it.
0:18:07 - (Bernadette Janson): But the other suggestion I would make, and this is something we've been doing with our kids, is team up with my parents to do a project. And so what we've been doing is. So for the first two, we did flips. So they got the loan, we put in the cash. And because we have a line of credit set up specifically for projects, we grab the cash, we do the project, we'd sell it. They get the first hundred thousand. That's our goal.
0:18:39 - (Bernadette Janson): And then if there's any more, we get the rest. So the last two, we made 100,000 for the first, for the second, 150 for the first one. So they get their 100,000 chunk, and then they take it off and do what they want with it. And I think that's a great strategy, because it's not just the money, it's building that entrepreneurial spirit. It's the family. Like, we don't have time to fight because we've always got a project on the go.
0:19:10 - (Tyron Hyde): Yep.
0:19:11 - (Bernadette Janson): So. Yeah.
0:19:12 - (Tyron Hyde): And they're learning as well, right?
0:19:14 - (Bernadette Janson): They are, yeah, they are.
0:19:16 - (Tyron Hyde): Is this your famous smashed avocado theory?
0:19:18 - (Bernadette Janson): It is.
0:19:19 - (Tyron Hyde): It is, it is.
0:19:20 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah.
0:19:21 - (Tyron Hyde): I was reading about that. And I love it. And I love it. No, I think that's great advice. Thank you.
0:19:24 - (Bernadette Janson): Well, with number three, and I'll talk about that one in a minute. Cause that comes into one of my other answers. Yeah.
0:19:30 - (Tyron Hyde): All right, number six of Ten with Ty. Let's flip it on its head. Now, you're 50 years old, and as you know, a lot of parents, a lot of people are going to be inheriting some property. Because our parents have been able to buy property when it was more affordable. So you're 50 years old, you've inherited 500k from your parents. How would you tell yourself to invest that 500k?
0:19:53 - (Bernadette Janson): Okay, so I would probably invest that in a micro development. Because I'm a renovator. I love to use renovating to get more bang out of our buck. So what I would do is buy a house on a block that was big enough to subdivide, hopefully one into three. So we have the house on one and then two if it was a corner block, two on the back. I would renovate the house and sell it off after I'd subdivided it so I could cash flow the project.
0:20:24 - (Bernadette Janson): Okay. So then I would build on the back. And the two on the back I would hold because I would have high equity without my money being in it. I could revalue and pull the money out. That should give you something where you've got 20% to 30% equity in the property with none of your own money. And I think that that's a great strategy for getting traction quickly. Because if you go and buy someone else's development, you're paying retail price, so you're paying over the odds.
0:20:56 - (Bernadette Janson): Whereas if you can do it your own and you can use the reno to increase your equity in it, does that make sense?
0:21:01 - (Tyron Hyde): Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Have you done one of these yourself?
0:21:05 - (Bernadette Janson): I'm doing one at the moment. I have done them before, but I'm doing one at the moment with our third daughter. So we're doing this. This is an avo smash strategy as well. But this time we're putting a duplex on the back. And we each will have an investment property out of it.
0:21:22 - (Tyron Hyde): Very good. Very good. I love it. Any particular areas, out of curiosity? That.
0:21:25 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah, well, that one we're doing in Echuca. Because we needed to work to a budget. So we bought a block for 542,000. It didn't get flooded, so during the floods. And. Yeah, so we just started the reno. We'll finish that in July and then we'll be moving on to the next stage of it. Yeah.
0:21:47 - (Tyron Hyde): Fantastic. Cool.
0:21:48 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah.
0:21:49 - (Tyron Hyde): All right, number seven. Let's say you found the DeLorean. You can travel back in time and see your 20-year-old self Bernadette. What would you tell 20-year-old Bernadette about investing for the next 80 years?
0:22:02 - (Bernadette Janson): I would tell myself to listen to my mother and not sell so much.
0:22:08 - (Tyron Hyde): You love it. That's right. Everyone listen to your mother. Unfortunately, my mother passed away, but I can't. She still brings in my head sometimes, though, you know?
0:22:19 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah, I bet she does. Yeah.
0:22:21 - (Tyron Hyde): I like that. Yeah. Listen to your mother. All right, number eight, what legacy, Bernadette, do you want to leave your family and your community?
0:22:32 - (Bernadette Janson): I guess the main legacy I want to leave them is to leave them empowered to use property to get them the life they want. I don't particularly want to give my kids everything, you know, I want them to learn to be independent, but to be smart about, and I think that's happening.
0:22:59 - (Tyron Hyde): Yeah.
0:22:59 - (Bernadette Janson): To be smart about how they deal with property and money so that they live the life of their creation.
0:23:07 - (Tyron Hyde): And I think that would start what you're doing with the smashed avocado theory. I think you're instilling that with them at an early age to go along that path.
0:23:17 - (Bernadette Janson): Absolutely. It's definitely made, like, our number three. They'd already bought their house very young, and that was sort of had their head screwed on properly. Our oldest daughter is an analyst, and she was big into shares and really didn't think much about property. But since we did that project together, she's, you know, like, she is just completely turned around, saved, you know, bought a better property for themselves, saved up to do a rental, and then figured out, hey, we'll buy an investment property before we do the reno, which I thought was smart because, you know, that investment property has grown a lot through COVID.
0:23:57 - (Bernadette Janson): So, yeah, it is happening.
0:23:59 - (Tyron Hyde): That's fantastic. Fantastic.
0:24:00 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah.
0:24:01 - (Tyron Hyde): All right, number nine, what does success look like to you?
0:24:05 - (Bernadette Janson): Success looks like having choice, being able to do the things that you want to do, having the time to do them, and having the money to do them without having to stress. So I'm not particularly. I don't really. I don't want to be incredibly wealthy. I just want to be able to live the life I want on your terms over having things and.
0:24:33 - (Tyron Hyde): Yeah, live the life on your terms. Yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that. All right, the last question. I guess this is a little bit about what podcast is about, not losing money. So Warren Buffett is quoted as saying, rule number one of investing, never lose money. And rule number two, never forget rule number one. So what he didn't say, though, Bernadette was, how do we follow this rule? He didn't give us a roadmap or plan. So how do you follow Warren Buffett's rules?
0:25:02 - (Bernadette Janson): Look, I see this quite a bit because, you know, in our business, you can get into trouble pretty quickly. You know, the market only has to have a sniffle and, you know, if you're planning. If you're planning or working on a flipping strategy, you know, if the market flinches a bit, then you get to sell and you can't get your sale price. But I believe that whatever you buy into, you need to really workshop the downside, because a lot of times we'll say, you know, if it doesn't sell or if this goes wrong, we'll just rent it out.
0:25:42 - (Bernadette Janson): But what doesn't happen is working out what that looks like. Can you afford to rent it out and hold it? I. I completely agree with Warren Buffett that you shouldn't sell against your wishes. You shouldn't sell because you have to. But that means creating a really robust plan B. And it's not just a throwaway item. It's sit down, work out what the return is on that property on long-term, work out what it is on short-term so that you really know if you're in that situation that you can actually afford to hold that property. Does that make sense?
0:26:17 - (Tyron Hyde): Absolutely. Absolutely.
0:26:19 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah.
0:26:19 - (Tyron Hyde): Now, there's one thing I didn't tell you, though. There is a bonus question. And it's going to be specific to everyone's kind of niche. Right. I make it up and I don't tell you. So, with you, I've obviously thought about renovation.
0:26:34 - (Bernadette Janson): Yeah.
0:26:34 - (Tyron Hyde): So I want to ask you, and for the listeners to know, what are the three most important things you look for before you buy a property to renovate?
0:26:43 - (Bernadette Janson): Okay. Firstly, I look at its condition, the property's condition, and how much it's going to cost to bring it up to scratch. Okay. So often when people are buying renovators, they think, oh, don't worry about having a building report because we're going to renovate it anyhow. But you can sink a lot of money into a house before you start seeing anything. That's the first thing. The next thing I would look at is, can I deliver an outcome that is going to add significant value to the end user, both aesthetically and also in function? So can I make a small tweak on that that's going to really expand its use? Can I turn like a two-bedder into a three-bedder.
0:27:28 - (Bernadette Janson): Can I open up, create a big open-plan area without having to go to full structural renovation? Because then you bring in a lot of risk and cost. And the third thing I would probably look at is this probably should be the first one, but the location of the property and is it somewhere where my target market is going to want to live and can I return it into their dream home? So they are my three things.
0:28:06 - (Tyron Hyde): I love that answer. I guess, yes. With the renovation, you've got to make sure if you're spending that much money that the market does warrant that property. You still get the market for that property, that money. Well, that's it. Thank you so much for joining me. My big takeaway, just remember to listen to your mother. As Bernadette says, I really enjoyed having you on and your insightful answers.
0:28:29 - (Tyron Hyde): Where can people contact you?
0:28:31 - (Bernadette Janson): Okay. The School of Renovating. schoolofrenovating.com. And if you've got any questions, I'm always happy to answer them.
0:28:40 - (Tyron Hyde): Briefly recap, are their courses on there or they can engage you personally or?
0:28:45 - (Bernadette Janson): Yep, all of the above.
0:28:46 - (Tyron Hyde): Okay. Fantastic. Oh, well, again, thank you so much for joining me and for playing Ten with Ty, have a great day. Thank you.
0:28:52 - (Bernadette Janson): See you later.
0:28:57 - (Tyron Hyde): If you own an investment property, then Washington Brown can help you pay less tax with an ATO-compliant depreciation schedule. Visit washingtonbrown.com.au to pay less tax today.